Infantry Chaos Marines

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Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 06, 2010 8:39 pm

I'm wondering how valid this army would be to run... my friend just started and she abhors almost all tanks. It's taken a while to convince her to take a rhino!

So I'm going to through this up, as I'd hate to have her just lose all the time(as that is BS).

Also any objective game help is appreciated, I'm an Eldar/Dark Eldar player... they're easy to me.

(From memory)2000:
HQ:
Chaos Lord, Khorne, Jugger, Daemonic Weapon, Melta Bombs
Chaos Sorceror, Tzeenetch, Familiar, Plasma Pistol, Warp Time, Bolt of Change, Doombolt
Elites:
5 Possessed, Champion, Khorne
-Rhino, Daemonically Possesed
Troops:
15 Chaos Marines, Champion- Powerfist, Icon of Khorne, Plasma Gun, Flamer
15 Chaos Marines, Champion-TL-Bolter, Icon of Nurgle, 2xHeavy Bolters
20 Khorne Bezerkers, Champion-Powerfist
Heavy Support:
Vindicator, Daemonically Possesed
7 Havocs, Lascannon, Plasma Gun, Autocannon, Missile Launcher

We play with 5th ed rules so not usually victory point scenarios.

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 06, 2010 9:31 pm

i don't play chaos, but i fight them a fair bit, so take this advice with whatever grain of salt you need.

first, i used to take melta bombs on my captain and chapter master all the the time, now i realize i don't need them. a lord with mark of khorne has TONS of attacks- get him into melee, and leave the tank popping to someone else. he's the one you use to kill the occupants of the tank, which you bust in the shooting phase. If you must kill tanks with him, give him a power fist. you'll be hitting with more attacks, still at strength 8. yeah you don't get the 2d6, but a melta bomb gives you one dice to hit, and you can't use them for anything else. a fist can do tons of things.

also the lord with tzeetch- pick your powers with purpose in mind. warp time is good on combat, and that 4+ invul. is too. So do you really need the other powers? what's this guys role?

other than that i like the firepower. she'll learn to like transports eventually. i didn't use them til later either. in strategic point games their speed is nice, and you can shoot out the top of a rhino! and plague marines are tough- use them to hold objectives!

you guys should play with us sometime, it's always good to have new people. also, i wanna fight DE

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:43 pm

Errr... her hatred of plauge marines and transports are aesthetic, so knowing her that's not changing lol, ever. She'll probably never use Plauge Marines, Noise Marines, or Thousand Suns either and will undoubtably convert her bezerkers to have no headress. I had to reinterpret nurgle to get her to take that icon of nurgle. Hell taking anything but khorne irks her.

Heck I've played plenty of Warhammer and have no wish to use more than two Transports.

And current theory she was going with:

Lord on Jugger-goes in the Zerkers, melta bombs are 5pts and if she needs a tank dead now him plus the power fist on the champ hopefully should do it.

Tzeentch Sorceror- Magical artillery he goes with the Nurgle Marines, warp time is in case she needs to engage in CC(watching how she plays she fully uses the ability to switch between combat and ranged options, plus both powers are assualt Wink)

Possessed- She thinks the models kick ass and loves the random. Plus she's getting the battleforce so what the hell.

'Zerkers- being beserk.

Khornate Marines- Move forward and put stunning fire into the enemy switching between firing and assualt modes. Seize objectives on enemy turf. I would call this unit the heart of her army.

Nurgle Marines- Focus on long range support(Khornate's are mid-short ranged really), and holding objectives closer to her. Fluff trick- Nurlge as the Polluter and Ruiner of Civilization. No plauges on these followers, they don't revel in being rotten. Yes, technically a worshipful aspect, but... loose.

Vindicator- New template rules make these things murder, and as an added plus she likes this tank's look quite a bit. Can take out vehicles and infantry just as easily.

Havocs- Very long range anti-vehicle support.

_________________________________________________________________

And we're in the store at least once a week. Plus you can usually message me for a game on this site and I'll work with ya to find time. If you really want to play DE(so far I've got a bf, incubi, and an archon).

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:17 am

dont get me worng, the list sounds good. but i find that if you can trim things down to bare minimum, your rewarded with having more stuff on the table when you can buy more units. that means your opponents have to choose from more stuff to shoot at.

i get it, aesthetics are important, and a themed army is cool, but thousand sons will absolutely own any squad they shoot at, while plagues will hold an objective til turn 7. noise marines are harder to use, but also sweet!
like the codexs say- themed armies are cool, if not as effective.

though given the choice, i'd day fluff/ theme it up! just get used to your weaknesses and you'll have just as much fun! its about the epicness of it all anyway, not who one in the end.

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infantry is your friend...

Post  Zac Nelsen on Sat Aug 07, 2010 1:26 am

Well, play how you want it's your army but, ima just say right now the biggest strength of chaos imo is the special infantry such as noise marines, plaugies, zerkers, or my favorite thousand sons. Marks are cool and allow for more models as it is less expensive but you don't get the COOLEST abilities such as AP 3 shots AND a non targetable sorcer with force weapons AND being slow but purposefull (relentless ftw) AND the 4+ invunurable. But really the reg squads with the marks is also pretty good if used right, id like to see it. The list itself seems pretty solid. 2 suggestions. Take the plasma pistol off the sorcer as you have better shooting powers and you can't soot pistol AND the power same turn (although as sorcer of tzeentch you can use 2 psychic powers a turn) and I would swap the plasma GUN on the small squad of khorne marines with a pistol, as you can't charge AND shoot the gun. The thing you wanna do with them is charge them asap, rapid fire is not a priority. One more thing, not using transports isn't that bad, as long as you have about 15 guys in the squad. Having 2 squads of 15 AND a squad of 20 sprinting at you is intimidating and hard to deal with. (Especially those nurgle ones)
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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Sat Aug 07, 2010 12:49 pm

I'm in complete agreement. She isn't(nor does she use forums so guess who gets to play go-between). It's not my list so I don't get to pick.

Yeah, pistol on the sorcerer is mostly there cause the model has one. Pistol on the Khorne marines sounds like possibly a good idea as well.

I figured lots of guys(and let's be honest a regular marine can kick several elite units asses) would compensate for no transports.

Thanks for the advice by the way. More is appreciated, but I think it's a pretty solid list.

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Sat Aug 07, 2010 10:26 pm

it's a pretty good one- just needs some play testing to iron it out.
i agree with zack. the khorne guy and the sorceror need to drop the plas. which will d more damage and get you back the points, rapid fire a plas or charge with +1 s and I, with TONS of attacks? yeah

hope she doesn't get offended, but really, even math is with the guy that charges. the only way i could see a plas rifle of any use is through the top of a rhino, but oh, wait....

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 08, 2010 12:10 am

She thinks it looks cool. Wink

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  tlc247 on Mon Aug 09, 2010 6:47 pm

One of the great things about a game like this is that aesthetics are up to the individual running the army. There is something to be said for being WYSIWYG, but Scott's army is a good example. You can use the codex rules for an army without necessarily needing to follow the codex fluff or color schemes. She could field any unit of Chaos Marines with Boltguns as "Thousand Sons", painted and modelled to her own standard. Honestly, she could even create her entire "Chaos" army out of "Vanilla" Space Marines if she wanted. The only trick to this is making it visibly clear for your opponent which squad is which. Scott's models run the same heraldry throughout the army, but the Red on the jump pack of his Sanguinary Priest sets it apart. The white on his Vanguard Veterans does the same thing, setting them apart from the rest of his assault marines.

The Vindicator is a solid, frightening choice for an army, and a good choice. Seriously, I need to buy one of those, and a Whirlwind. Just have to get some other stuff painted first.

I usually like running a mix, but fielding a ton of power armour infantry can make for a very difficult army to deal with, even without a bunch of special options. Just make sure you're equipped to handle different types of armies. Ideally, specialized units will do better than generic units. For example, I can equip a Devastator Squad to handle tanks, or to handle infantry. In either case, if I've specialized, they are likely to do better against their chosen target than a Tactical Squad, regardless of how I equip the Tactical Squad. I'd offer Chaos advice, but I'm not familiar enough with their codex. Your experience with Eldar should make you a solid army builder. Just use what you've learned from playing Eldar to help her put together her Chaos list. And don't be afraid to do your own thing with the models, as long as it's still reasonably clear what the models are. For example, you could do Thousand Sons, but don't glue on their heads. At all. Smile It actually fits standard fluff well enough. You could also use Eldar Guardian heads on Slaanesh Noise Marines, if you had extra. (No promises on how it would look, just throwing it out there as an example of an option.)
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think outside the box

Post  Zac Nelsen on Tue Aug 10, 2010 2:00 am

I was talking with scott the other day about this and how to use fluff to make playing more enjoyable. If any of you spend time on the fluff posts you will see I'm working on a story for every individual squad or special model that has impressed me. You don't like the idea of a disgusting, bloated plauge marine? How about a squad of solid iron golems, former marines blessed by nurgle to be extreemly resillient, that not only sounds cool but would look great on the field. You can enjoy the benefits of all gods if you can make up fluff to make them really cool and fun to use for you. I didn't love the khorne berserkers (thought it was very plain) so I tuned them into an ethereal squad of warp shadows, that simply dissapear in a plume of fire, when they are killed (actually just sent back to warp). You gotta think outside box and come up with cool things that will make your army unique and specific to you.
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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Tue Aug 10, 2010 12:36 pm

yep, you guys are right- you just gotta not be afraid of making them your own. you use the same rules, just come up with a different reason for why you have them.

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  tlc247 on Tue Aug 10, 2010 5:17 pm

A different reason for why you have them, and if necessary, a different reason for why they use the set of rules that they do. The Iron Golem idea for Plague Marines was awesome, for example.
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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 11, 2010 10:33 am

Lol, I think this list will work. Without the specialist. The goal is to have squads leaning in one direction who can switch to another with ease. As an Eldar player the versatility of Chaos Marines are something I've been astounded by as we play games. She has accomplished more with ten chaos marines then I have with my aspect warriors. She's shot down my banshees, and then charged my avengers. It was godlike to watch.

That is the theme behind this army. But I guess we'll see how it goes, after all you all seem to have said it might indeed work.

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Guest on Wed Aug 11, 2010 11:56 am

oh it will work for sure! its a good list; marines (of any kind) are good at one thing: being good at everything! course, not the best, but good. their supposed to be flexible, and we're not saying this is bad- heck we play marines too! its good to have versatility, all we're saying is flexibility is only good if both roles for which your trying to be flexible are possible. for instance, if you want anti tank and anti infantry in the same unit, that is great! but accomplishing it can be done in many cheaper, more effective ways. and sometimes its better to be specialized instead of balanced. your eldar, you get it! it all depends on situation, terran, opponent, and war-gear. somethings are worth taking, somethings are better at other times. with marines, its great to have that flexibility.

we're just saying what we would do based on our style of play, and our own luck/ experience. (one melta bomb doesn't work for me-if its one dice and you need it to work, you'll fail in my experience)
and, if shes frustrated with objective based games, then trying new units will help, whether she likes the look/fluff or not.
also, have her try it against other people, other races. that's how you can tell.
once again, i think the list is very solid.

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Re: Infantry Chaos Marines

Post  Lil Red on Wed Aug 11, 2010 1:22 pm

I like what Scott was saying especially about certain units are better against certain races. For instance, Pyrovores will probably never be played in our store because we have to many marine players, but it will be a really good unit against orks and other nids players.

The good thing about marines is that you don't have to tailor your army as much to other armies, they have to tailor to you. Find what is working for you and force your opponent to play your style of game.

"Golem Marines" I think is one of the coolest fluffs I've heard in a long time. They are also perfect for objective missions.

Scott taught me that going last and having jump troops (or troops in a transport, anything to make them fast) can be a good way to win a game. In the game that I am thinking of (it was right before our last tourny and we were trying out lists) I felt I was pushing him around all game. I outflanked and killed his Predator. I shot down his Stormraven and immobilised his Dreadnaught. I honestly thought that I had the game won. At the end of my turn6 I was holding 2/3 objectives. He then jumped over a hedge, killed my guardsmen close enough to the objective and won with 2/3 objectives (He had 1/2 a tac squad on his rear objective I never could kill).

So you can either try and go "hard to kill" or "sweep and steal" or a mixture of both when it comes to objective games.
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