I'm done losing

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I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:24 am

So I'm giving in, Eldard is on the feild. I'm also trying some stuff other people have done.

So before the list, the reasons I picked it. In my playstyle the advantages of Eldar I use are:
1. Fast fast fast fast and did I mention fast?
2. Psychic Powers.
3. Guardians can rule, I think I need to run them differently a bit.
4. As I play my DE, I miss the shooting power.

So okay here's the list:
Eldrad, 5 Warlocks,3x Destructor, Enhance, Embolden,
Farseer, Runes of Warding, Runes of Witnessing, Spirit Stones, Doom, Guide(Dire Avengers)
15 Guardians, Bright Lance, Warlock-Conceal
15 Guardians, Starcannon, Warlock-Conceal
2x5 Guadian Jetbikes, Warlock-Embolden, Singing Spear(which I learned is 2-handed), Shuriken Cannon
5 Pathfinders
10 Dire Avengers, Exarch, Dual Catapults, Bladestorm, Defend, Serpent-All Kit, Lance, Cannon
Night Spinner, Spirit Stones
2 D-Cannons, Warlock-Conceal

Opinions?

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:44 am

very solid! i like it!

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:03 am

My only issue is it's 285.50$, 290.5$ if I want the actual Eldrad. Possibly more as I want bitz for conversion and such.

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:09 am

you checked online i'm assuming? ebay? ksm?

good game today!!! loved all the infantry, that was so fun! and everyone had their armies painted!!!!

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:13 am

Not ebay yet(though of course I will though I prefer helping Paul), but yeah that's GW.

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:32 am

1) Eldrad already has runes of warding, save 15 points
2) At least for me Pathfinders never make the points
3) Transports are rockin. Take some more.
4) FIRE DRAGONS. I've learned you don't need a full squad. Especially since they become a MASSIVE magnet for everything your opponent has.

Just my opinion though. I do REALLY enjoy all the guardians and warlocks you gots goin on there.

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 1:39 am

1. I think he'll die. Other then that good point.
2. With 5th ed's killing of VP's they don't have to. They hold an objective(hopefully).
3. I hate the look of armour. So even while trying to be competitive there is only so far I'll go.
4. Agreed, they rule. I hope I have enough vehicle doom without.

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Lil Red on Fri Aug 27, 2010 9:18 am

This would be an awesome list against orks, nids, and infantry based guard. The problem I see is popping tanks. I think you are going to be disappointed with the dire avengers against most races (at least I never could get them to do what I wanted them to, except against Bo's Eldar....). I'd drop the Dire Avengers, drop the guardian squads to 10 each, but bring 3 squads (so that you get an extra Heavy Gun that can move and shoot), Keep the guardians in cover and shoot things until the enemy gets close, then move towards them shoot everything (this is where the weapons platform is awesome) and if they're still alive assault them (If 2-3 marines are left I usually still won the fight).

If you can bring your self to it, 5 Fire Dragons in a wave serpent with vectored engines will pop any tank in the game (ask Marshall about my lone Fire Dragon Exarch and his LR). If you drop the rangers you'll probably be able to get them. I too have had little success with Rangers, however if you ever play a list with a lot of MC's (aka nids) bring them, I think they would be good in that case and that case alone.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  tlc247 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 11:48 am

In posting this, keep in mind that it's been at least two editions since I played Eldar, but I'll throw my free advice in. I'm sure it will be worth exactly what you pay for it.

First, I have to agree with Marshall. In previous editions, if a transport exploded, it killed everyone inside. I think GW's sales department realized what a colossal mistake that was when their tank sales dropped to nothing. Transports are definitely important, especially for Eldar who tend to fall over and die before their opponent can even pull the trigger. They are way too fragile to leave completely unprotected. Cover is important, but a Wave Serpent will usually be more reliable protection.

On the other side, Wave Serpents are most important for close combat squads, and you don't have a lot of those. Just don't write them off entirely, especially based on aesthetics.

With Eldrad on the table, do you really need a 2nd Farseer? I'd keep Eldrad on your table edge, probably with a 10-man Guardian squad with long range weaponry. There are armies that will get to him anyway, but he's not a frontline warrior and his 4 Toughness isn't what makes him worth the points.

Instead of the 2nd Farseer, consider an Autarch or an Avatar. The Autarch could be put on a Jetbike to compliment your jetbike squads, and the Avatar is always good for drawing fire away from your other units.

Your list is comprised almost entirely of Troops. Personally, I think it's awesome! Very Happy In tournament and objective matches, you'll immediately start with a huge advantage.

Nobody else has mentioned it, but I'm a little confused about why you put Embolden on your jetbike Warlocks. I understand the squad has 8 LD, and being smaller, will have to take more Morale checks. I still think Conceal is the better option, but nobody else has said anything so my lack of table-top experience may be clouding my judgment.

I'd have to agree with the opinion that you lack tank popping ability. I haven't looked at points, but consider running 3 guardian squads with just Bright Lances, and drop the Starcannon. I know the stats on the Starcannon are not as good for popping tanks, and if it has a blast template... well, you're not hurting for infantry killing power. Another option to consider would be a War Walker Squadron. I don't think that one would be worth it, but if you had a squadron of 3 with Farseer buffs and Bright Lances, that's some BRUTAL tank-killing. If you go with a Bright Lance and Scatter Laser on each War Walker, you have capabilities to do both. The other similar option that might appeal to you more is a Vyper Squadron. Either way, it could prove incredibly important if you play against something like my Dreadnought list, or Chris's Steel Legion of Doom from the last tournament.

Overall, I like the idea of the list. Troops, troops, and more troops with some solid buffs. If you only took one piece of advice from my wall o' text, I'd have to say the tank-popping stuff is the most important. Most people don't play a 2,000 point list that doesn't include at least 3 or 4 units with front AV of 12 or more.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  tlc247 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:00 pm

Looking a little closer at the list, I'd consider removing the one Wave Serpent you have. The extra range on Avenger catapults means they don't need the transport as much. Also, drop both Guardian squads to 10-man, upgrade the starcannon to a bright lance, and take the points you have leftover to make a Vyper Squadron.

I'd still also consider the Avatar or Autarch instead of a 2nd Farseer, and possibly drop the Seer Council and just run Eldrad with a Guardian squad. Extra points could be used to expand your Pathfinder squad. I believe that even 1-3 more models in your Pathfinder squad could make them considerably more effective.

Ultimately, the best way to refine this list is to play it a few times. If you can proxy some models, I'm sure some people would be willing to playtest some lists with you.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 12:14 pm

Holy shit! Lot;s of replies, cool.

Let's see,

Lil Red:
My Dire Avenger's win me games. With their Farseer(and Eldrad helping the rest of my army), I'm rather convinced they can and will accomplish what I think they will.

3x10 Guardians is an extra heavy weapon(good) but in my experience I tend to lose one first/second turn and the other third(only run two right now). So theoretically it's more shots this way. Assuming one squad dies second and the another third and the last fifth(keeping to the pattern) that's 10 shots, 5 of which would be starcannons so that's technically ten shots from it(the lances will die first) so fifteen. I think I can keep guardians alive till turn five both. So five lance shots, 10 starcannon shots. Same effect, less points.

Fire dragons, good point. I want pathfinders to hold objectives and I think Dragons need a transport(everyone hates them). I could drop the finders and get the dragons but not the transport.

Tank popping ability: Serpent's TL-Lance, Guardian's Lance, Night Spinner(on some), Jetbike's singing spears, D-Cannons(against everything), Seer Council, Farseer(if needed).

tlc:
I will write off based an aesthetics what I wish. I can be pushed to Eldrad, I can't be pushed to buy a few more 50$ models I think are dumb. Wink

Embolden=They don't run. Conceal-more points,save against things negating my T4 3+. Which will happen, but I should be able to get the cover anyways.

Yes, yes I need the second Farseer. ;-) And anyone who has fought my seer council should know they are reactionary. They will hang back and buff all day, only to surge forward and kill(tie up) at the drop of a hat pin.

See adding up of tank popping ability- might consider War Walker Squadron... hmmmm...

As to your second post:
Having run them with versus without the transport, I think they do need it. See above for arguments for more then ten man guardian squads. Upgrading to another lance not a bad plan.

More pathfinder is good.

And agreed on the playtesting.


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Re: I'm done losing

Post  tlc247 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:38 pm

You mention the Singing Spears on your jetbike squadron for tank-popping. I have to admit, I hadn't really considered that option. My only concern in planning on something like that is that your entire squad has to shoot at the same target, so you'd be losing 10-12 twin-linked shuriken catapult shots for a one-shot chance at a spear. With a typical guardian squad, especially one hanging back in cover, that isn't a big deal (like using them for a Bright Lance). With jetbikes, I think it's a much bigger trade-off. Especially since you can move into the 12" range, take your shots, and then move back out in the assault phase.

Using the spear to pop a tank is ABSOLUTELY a wonderful option you should never, EVER forget. But I would try to avoid planning on it. It's like giving my Chaplain melta-bombs. It's a good idea, but it's for situational use, not a key to my battle plan.

Striking a balance between infantry killing and anti-tank weaponry is one of the more difficult parts of putting together an army list, imo.

One more thought on the Dire Avengers and the Wave Serpent... if you run a squad of Fire Dragons in the Wave Serpent instead of the DAs, it may serve to draw fire away from your Dire Avengers. If your plan is to use the Fast, Skimmer ability to dart in last turn and snag objectives, then obviously you'd need to plan things differently. Using the Wave Serpent for the Fire Dragons (at the start of the fight, at least) will take care of the problem you have affording the points, and will keep you from having to waste the money on a second model.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Lil Red on Fri Aug 27, 2010 2:58 pm

I agree with TLC, DA's would do better on foot than FD's and a lot of fire will be directed at the FD's and away from the DA's. DA + Eldrad would be a wicked combo. If you keep the DA's I'd drop the star cannon in the guardians and bring a bright lance. You can pop tanks with it and instant kill nasty T4 models. Guardians in cover are harder to kill than people give them credit for.

I am however an IG player and I love long range fire power backed by low point troop options that can surprise people when used well (such as DA +++++ Eldrad or Guardians BL + Eldrad's guide etc...).

I like the list and I think it will be super competitive. I'd just make a conversion for Eldrad and fluff for the model if you don't want to buy his model (although I like his model so you can't go wrong either way).

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  tlc247 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 3:31 pm

There is an Eldar Farseer with a Staff at the store right now that is probably a couple dollars less than the official Eldrad model. Imo, the only real difference in the models is the pose and the price.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Fri Aug 27, 2010 4:15 pm

I'd get it, but that's the same as my other one lol.

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  tlc247 on Fri Aug 27, 2010 7:08 pm

lol. It's too bad. The pose is more dynamic, and not as stuffy as the actual Eldrad model, imo. I suppose another option would be to order one of the other Farseer models, and use the one you have for Eldrad. *shrug*
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Sun Aug 29, 2010 3:27 am

maybe its just luck or what i went against but i tried Yriel tonight and he has an impressive kill tally.
1 Soul Grinder, 2 Greater Daemons (one of them he only dealt the killing blow while he dealt all four wounds to one) and 33 lesser Daemons.

He took a single wound from his Doomed special rule. I liked it. A LOT.
He is a marine killer for sure and luckily we have a lot of those at the store.

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  tlc247 on Mon Aug 30, 2010 10:27 am

I've looked at him, and if I were running my Eldar right now, I would be running him, no questions asked. His statline is comparable to Mephiston, but he's not a psyker, always wounds on 2+, and has Str 9 vs. vehicles. Running him with a Farseer for re-rolls would/could be extremely effective.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  BadMotherDude on Tue Aug 31, 2010 12:47 pm

If you are still wanting an eldrad i have one you can buy. If you haven't picked up the avatar, i also have an extra one of him.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 05, 2010 4:38 am

I'm certainly interested depending on price!

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Re: I'm done losing

Post  BadMotherDude on Sun Sep 05, 2010 9:26 pm

How about ok how about ten for eldrad and 15 for avatar. Thats half price off the regular price on both models. How about that.
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Re: I'm done losing

Post  Guest on Sun Sep 05, 2010 10:04 pm

That's quite a deal!

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Re: I'm done losing

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