Wow reading the rules is fun!!

A few things i picked up after buying the rules.. I could be wrong and missed sections but these are things i've read...

THIS IS THE MAIN ONE FOR ME!!
Area Terrain: You can shoot into, through it as long as you have line of sight. The ONLY thing i could find (again i could be missing things) is that shooting out of area terrain you have to be within 2" of the edge or you give the target of your shots a cover save!!

Cliffs: There is nowhere (i see) that says height gives you a cover (but usually the squad is hard to see anyway from line of site from the shooter, so i say we roll with it)

Flame Weapons in Ruins: Unless you are jump infantry, jetbike or skimmer you can only shoot targets on the same level or one level above or one level below. Monstrous creatures follow normal infantry guidelines as far as i can tell, which makes no sense but oh well!

I thought our area terrain thing was just a house rule....

I don't know?? I know Paul said it for a tourney but that's it.

Tank shock!! We all love it huh? Good way to block off units and move strategically.. The only time you actually move your unit when tank shocked is if it ends it movement on you. If you Death or Glory and don't stop it or pass your test it just moves through your unit as though it wasn't actually there..

I checked both city fights and the rule book and couldn't find anything about being raised and receiving cover. how do we want to play it?

So far our house rules have been:
raised 4+
area terrain 4+
can't see more than 3" into cover (and out?)

what do we want to do now?

Standing on raised terrain just makes you easier to pick out, honestly. :/ There are definitely cases where I could see granting a cover save, but I think they should be the exception. If there is a question (shooting at someone on the Landing Pad, for example), check line of sight. Normally, it's 50% for vehicles and monstrous creatures. Since infantry have a little more flexibility to duck and cover, I'd say 1/3 instead.

Option #2 would be give a 5+ cover save instead, but again, I think this should be situational. Does the raised elevation actually give any kind of cover? Landing Pad, sure. Cliffs, depends on how far away from the cliff you are. Hills, very unlikely. Last suggestion: Give a bonus to the cover save granted by going to ground.

I didn't realize the flamer template rule was being abused, but I've probably watched it and not thought about it.

Tank Shock, 10 times out of 9, ends with the tank parked at least partially in the space the squad was occupying. It should definitely be remembered, but it doesn't actually happen that often.

Its not that they are abused but its just rules i've seen done wrong.

As for the tank shock one they almost always keep going when it happens to me

so what should we do with hills? after re-reading the rules I would have to say no to a cover save. If anything being on top of a hill would make you worse off, however if half the unit is behind the hill then you'd still get the cover and the sweet LOS with your heavy gun.

As much as I like to perch shooty stuff up high, unless you have something besides elevation going for you, I'd have to say no on the cover save. I would be more than happy to make up for it by giving a +2 to your cover save for going to ground, instead of the usual +1, if you're at the top of the hill/cliff. Going to ground could completely deny LoS, but that seems excessive for a house rule.

I vote LOS from the eye of the shooter. if the squad is half covered, it gets a save. rasied elevation will add +2 to the cover save if half or less of the target squad is visible. if not, (if more than 50% is visible to the shooter) then they only get +1 to cover for going to ground (as in the case of being in the open.)

yeah?

I've been thinking about the Pro's and Con's of being on a hill. The thing I can relate it to the most is my Vendetta gunship. The Vendetta's base does two things for it (besides looking cool). 1) gives the Vendetta a SWEET!!! LOS. Rarely do things get cover saves from the vendetta because it can see over most cover. 2) what you can see can now see you. Rarely do I get a cover save from enemy fire. Do I wish sometimes that I could cut down the base so it hovered like other skimmers? yes and no.

I think hills are a lot the same way. A devastator squad that is perched on a hill can now see over all of their own army and a lot of low hedges/fences/walls. Now their AP1-3 guns can get clear, no armor or cover save, shots. Downside is that they are out in the open and can get shot at as well.

All that being said I'd have to say unless you have something blocking LOS while being raised you don't get a cover save, that being said, when shooting at a model on a hill and they decide to go to ground, lay the models down then check to see how many members of the squad you can see, if > 50% is seen it's a 6+ save If <50% can be seen (because they are slightly on the other side of the hill or something) then they'd get a 4+ "cover" save and get the +1 to their save (so in total 3+) for going to ground. That way we stick with the same rules the book has

However I'm happy with whatever people decide on as a whole

yeah- so they only get a cover if they are half in cover from point of origin LOS. that'll work.

However with forests we play that you can't shoot THROUGH them just because we only use 1-2 trees for the entire thing (this way our models can also fit in the forest) If we had a bunch of trees on the map and that was our "forest" then we could use the true LOS. We'd just have to space them out enough that models could also fit in-between them..

I like Chris's proposal... it does simplify things, simply by sticking with what's in the book. The only difference would be checking to see if the squad is "in cover" after going to ground, since laying the models down may change the number of models you have LOS to.

We can actually run forest terrain as its recommended in the book, with occasional minor changes to account for needing more trees. Forests are considered "area terrain", so any model inside a forest gets a cover save, even from other models in the same forest, or barrage weapons landing on top of them. The only exception is vehicles and monstrous creatures that still need to have 50% cover. In the case of infantry, they have the option of ducking behind a fallen log or something similar that would offer no real protection to a vehicle. Running forests correctly is mostly a matter of setting them up correctly, but if we're lacking the necessary terrain, we just need to agree beforehand on how to run it.

I agree with scott on the cliffs. for forrests i say we go by book, cover unless you are within 2 inches on the outside edge. (at least thats what i got from what it means by what marshall said) MC's are hard to say as we do about 2-3 trees so we can fit our guys like has been already said. i say that the MC gets a 5+ cover, as it is still covered by trees that would be in the forrest, but is much easier to see and cant completely be covered by one like infantry could.

yeah i like what zack said. 5+ for a monsterous creature if its hard to tell if its in cover. also, the cover has to reasonable be able to cover the model.

about the cliffs: what happens when we tip the models over and you can't see them at all? that, i think, would mean any enemy models that cannot see the squad at all now can't shoot at them, as per LOS rules.

that keeps it simple, and still gives hills advantages.

Lil Finnigan wrote:yeah i like what zack said. 5+ for a monsterous creature if its hard to tell if its in cover. also, the cover has to reasonable be able to cover the model.

about the cliffs: what happens when we tip the models over and you can't see them at all? that, i think, would mean any enemy models that cannot see the squad at all now can't shoot at them, as per LOS rules.

that keeps it simple, and still gives hills advantages.

I like it!

So how do we decide what we will officially go by? Start a poll and see if everyone agrees?

i guess just dicuss with people before your match