That's not effective...

chaos cant dispell ima redo my wording. Say I have a tzeentch psyker with 2 powers and he is allowed to cast 2 powers a turn. His powers are warptime, and gift of chaos. I attempted to use warptime but failed. Now I REALLY need warptime cause I plan on charging. I would argue that I can either use gift of chaos OR I can use my second power for the turn to attempt warptime again. I am NOT saying you can keep testing after failing, I agree with stephan that once you throw those psykic test dice down YOU HAVE USED ONE OF YOUR POWERS FOR THE TURN pass or fail. I just think if you are allowed more than one power a turn you may use your second power to try the SAME power again.

Zac Nelsen wrote:chaos cant dispell ima redo my wording. Say I have a tzeentch psyker with 2 powers and he is allowed to cast 2 powers a turn. His powers are warptime, and gift of chaos. I attempted to use warptime but failed. Now I REALLY need warptime cause I plan on charging. I would argue that I can either use gift of chaos OR I can use my second power for the turn to attempt warptime again. I am NOT saying you can keep testing after failing, I agree with stephan that once you throw those psykic test dice down YOU HAVE USED ONE OF YOUR POWERS FOR THE TURN pass or fail. I just think if you are allowed more than one power a turn you may use your second power to try the SAME power again.

thats what im saying! ive never said you can test past the number of spells you can cast.
i agree with zack.

Lol, I can't dispel and for all my armies psyker hate I only have the crucible.

yeah you can, the wording in the book is you can't USE the same power twice in one turn with the same psyker. But if you fail perils of the warp you don't USE the power, only on double ones it says you still USE the power. Even if you test, and fail you didn't USE it unless you roll double ones.

Psychic Shooting Attacks:
(a model still can not USE the same power twice in a turn)

Perils of the Warp:
Note that a psyker who rolls double 1 will still USE his power, even if he is wounded or killed as a result.

It specifically words it with USE, so if you fail a test you don't USE that power. Though you do USE a Psychic power for that turn. (so if you only can cast one you're shit out of luck)

ALSO if you pass a psychic test and are disspelled, you didn't USE the power because it did nothing, but you did USE one of your chances to cast that turn.

Njal can disspell on a 3+. Eat it. Lol

P.S.

This may just be how I feel, but LOOOOONNNNGGGG posts in anything but the fluff column, i just don't bother reading past first paragraph.

Hambone wrote:
It specifically words it with USE, so if you fail a test you don't USE that power. Though you do USE a Psychic power for that turn. (so if you only can cast one you're shit out of luck)

ALSO if you pass a psychic test and are disspelled, you didn't USE the power because it did nothing, but you did USE one of your chances to cast that turn.

And here's where I have my argument. Either you USE it or you don't. If you "USE a Psychic power for that turn", it only makes sense to me that the power you were trying to use is included as also having been used.

I was never trying to justify the idea of continually casting a power until you succeed because you didn't actually USE it. I was simply trying to point out that the current argument for allowing a re-try on the same power could also be used to promote that idea (which we all agree is NOT supposed to happen).

HEY, MARSHALL!! Check it out!! >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> **shiny object** <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<

haha marshall

no i understood, no worries. and i can see it your way too. NOONE has promoted the idea of testing til you pass, though we might have assumed that.

in any case, im moving this to the rules for a poll.

You well it specifically says that you only USE a power on Double 1.. So yes you can't USE the same power twice, but if you fail the check it pretty much, in very plain English, says you only USE it when you fail on Double 1.

An excerpt directly from the rulebook:

"To use a psychic power successfully the psyker must pass a Psychic test, which is a normal Leadership test."

My argument is simply that the power is used, regardless of whether or not it is used successfully. The comment under Perils of the Warp:

"Note that a psyker who rolls double 1 will still use his power, even if he is wounded or killed as a result."

I'm REALLY glad they added that statement, just because people would otherwise assume that any Perils result meant that the power didn't succeed. I have personally corrected people on that mistake in the past, mostly on people who thought that their own psychic power had failed. I personally don't believe they were trying to make a statement about whether or not a power is considered to be "used" or not for purposes of attempting to use the power a second time.

nope! thats what i said! they dont even mention it at all! when it says you can't use the same power again they assume you already passed your test and want to cast the same one. they state that you can't to avoid stacking buffs!

the rules as written say nothing about trying to cast the same one if you failed.

http://www.games-workshop.com/MEDIA_CustomProductCatalog/m1610178_Chaos_Space_Marines_FAQ_2008-05_Edition.pdf

Last question on first page says, and I Quote:

"Powers that are Psychic Shooting may only be used once a turn. Gift of Chaos can be used a Multitude of times as it is NOT A PSYCHIC SHOOTING ATTACK. The same is true of Warptime"

So as long as its not a shooting attack. So even if it counts when you fail it doesn't matter, because it can be cast multiple times.

CCW

Doesn't Ahriman have a special ability allowing him to use the same power multiple times? I really know nothing about the various Chaos Marine heroes. :/

Farther down on the next page, the question is asked if Typhus can use his force weapon ability on more than one model in a single assault phase, and they say that he can not because it follows the same rules as a normal force weapon. It does mention that Typhus can use this ability in addition to his psychic shooting attack(summarized, please see Marshall's link).

On page 50 of the rulebook, it says the following about Force Weapons:

"They have the same effects as power weapons, but also confer to the wielder one additional psychic power, used in close combat, that can instantly extinguish the life force of any opponent."

This implies that a psyker can't use the same power twice in a turn, which I thought everyone had agreed on. The real question is whether a failed attempt to use a psychic power still counts as having used it. So far, the arguments are as follows:

Yes, it does.

No, it doesn't count as having been used for this purpose, but does count as being used for determining the number of psychic powers a model can use in a single turn.

Arhiman can use 3 psychic powers a turn and multiple shooting powers but the way the guy answered it made it seem universal. When it asks later its because Typhus has a special force weapon where he doesn't need to psychic check on. So like GAMES WORKSHOP said you can attempt to cast it again as long as its not a shooting power. So yes you CAN stack powers technically but you can never go above 10 and never get double rerolls.

the last paragraph on the first page is pretty convincing...
ok guys lets move this to the polls.